Lethal Attraction

[Paddy]

Anyone watch the special on Sky 1 last night with Ross Kemp? It was looking at America's obscession with guns.

It was quite watchable and even scary in parts but I wonder what you guys think.

No flaming please!

[Paddy]

I think they quoted that America has twelve times more gun crime than the top twelve industrialised countries combined.

They were asking people if they thought that guns were a part of American culture and if they thought the high gun crime rate was due to the easy availability of weapons.

They had a rifle in a gun shop in Nevada i think that was used to hunt elephant!

I think they said that there eight (or even eighty - I can't remember) times more legitimate places to buy guns than branches of McDonalds!

Everyone was defending their right to protect themselves, but in my knowledge there is only one case in the UK where an intruder has been shot. Perhaps there has been more, i don't know... but this case hit the headlines because the 'victim' got a jail sentence for killing one of the intruders....

What do you think?

[Brian R.]

I think it is beyond debate. The genie is out of the bottle here and there is very little anyone can do about it, including the government. A magic gun dissolver is sort of impractical.

If they stopped making guns and selling guns here today and never sold another, you would never know it had happened except for the people who talked about it. There would be no difference in crime rate, accidental deaths, etc. There are just too many around and almost no one who owns a gun (and generally paid a significant amount of money for it) would give it up voluntarily.

I have owned pistols and shotguns at various times when I was younger and lived in dangerous areas. Once I had become mature and studied karate in my later period of life, I had to come to grips with the fact I could kill someone and it was no longer an abstract concept but something that could happen to me on a daily basis. I didn't consiously have to go grab a weapon any more to kill someone, all I had to do was hit someone reflexively in the wrong spot as I was trained to do. At this point, I purposefully made the decision that I would never take a chance on killing someone unless they were at the point of threatening to kill me or someone who I could protect. This obviously relates to any kind of weapon. It is better to take a chance on getting killed than to be sure and kill someone who may not have that intent.

JMHO

[Fat Tone]

It's been debated on here before. It certainly does seem to be beyond debate as far as most Americans are concerned. They'll defend their right to bear arms until their dying breath.

[Kooldino]

Originally posted by Paddy
I think they said that there eight (or even eighty - I can't remember) times more legitimate places to buy guns than branches of McDonalds!

Even assuming it's only 8x, that HAS to be BS. I can name 5 or so McDonalds in my area, and maybe 2 places to buy a gun.

[Brian R.]

Originally posted by Fat Tone
It's been debated on here before. It certainly does seem to be beyond debate as far as most Americans are concerned. They'll defend their right to bear arms until their dying breath.

You are making a really broad generalization. I doubt you have a clue what most Americans would do. It is the vocal gun owners who you hear defending this right. What percentage of the population feels that way? I would bet the answer is "I don't have a clue".

[Fat Tone]

You are right Brian. I meant to say '...most Americans on here...' purely based on the reactions to previous simillar threads. You may of course also be right that they are not representative of all American murcers, but certainly the impression I have is that I am right. Let's put it to a poll and find out?

[Brian R.]

Even on here, you are only hearing the voices of those who have strong opinions. The majority probably do not. I for one do not have a strong opinion on this issue. I am probably one of the few (?) who would surrender my weapons if they became illegal.

[Fat Tone]

For the sake of interest, why do you already have weapons?

[Ribbit]

I'd just like to point out that since this documentary was on Sky 1, it was almost certainly a somewhat tabloid and sensationalist programme. Not flaming, just some context to take Paddy's second post in.

Didn't see it myself, I hardly ever watch TV anymore. Spend way too much time at the computer

[ALBPM]

They were asking people if they thought that guns were a part of American culture and if they thought the high gun crime rate was due to the easy availability of weapons.

Paddy, criminals don't buy guns in stores legally as law abiding citizens do....

There is already a huge Black Market for guns and if you ban them from the law abiding folks then guess who is armed.....

I've owned guns of various types since I was 10 years old and never have any of my guns injured anyone.
I did have 4 incidents where I let someone intending to rob or otherwise harm me know that I was armed and they were persuaded to leave me alone.

I don't believe I would tolerate being "Legally Disarmed" while the Criminal Element in this Country remains armed.

This weekend I will take my Concealed Carry Course (CCW) so I can be "Legally Licensed" to carry a concealed side arm.

Sorry to disappoint you guys but I absolutley refuse to be an innocent victim or allow my wife and friends to be the same.

If the Government in this country decided to ban all guns ( A War on Guns) it would be just as successful as the "War on Drugs".....
In other words it would be a "Friggn Joke"

BTW..... my latest upgrade is a Kimber Pro Carry II 45acp in Stainless (Top) I still have the Kimber Royal Carry (only 600 made in 1998)

[Jammrock]

I can sum up any special on America and guns in two words:

Sensationist journalism

Yeah there are some nut jobs out there that are obsessed with guns, but any media will blow it completely out of proportion. Our crime problems have little to do with guns, and more to do with other, far more important topics. If criminals didn't have guns, they'd find other ways to do their dirty work, or get guns on the black market like any other criminal would.

Anybody that says America is obsessed with guns and that our rights to own guns is some root to any of our societal problems is an idiot that doesn't know jack $#!% about the US. And quite honestly I'm sick of so called "investigative reporters," "documentists," and other so called experts trying to make the US seem like a bunch of gun toting barbarians that would sooner shoot someone than say hello. It's a bunch of lies made to sell a story.

All countries, industrialized or otherwise, have their problem criminals. They have their poverty (even the richest socialist European nations haven't wiped that out). They have their problems. The fact that people concentrate on guns in the US is because people are dumb enough to believe it if they edit their stories right, and interview a few people dumb enough to realize they're being used.

And quite honestly I'm sick of hearing about it.

Let me tell you how it really is. Most of the population of the US doesn't give a flying rats @$$ about guns. If they do own guns it's for personal protection or sport, like hunting, collecting, or range shooting. The very small minority of people that use guns for any other purpose are what we call criminals, just like everyone else.

Guns are not the root cause of social disorder in the US. Americans are not obsessed with guns. The ONLY reason why so many people fight against gun control laws is because of a section of the constitution that says:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

The thought process for those who fight against gun control goes like this:

It is our constitutional right to "bear Arms" for "security." This is a constitutional guarantee. If the lawmakers take away our this freedom, what freedom will they take away next? Therefor, I must protect the right to "bear arms" to protect my freedom.

So if there is any obsessions that Americans care for so much that it becomes a fault, it is with our love of FREEDOM. And that is what the whole god damned gun issue boils down to. Plain and god damn simple as that!

Thank you,

Jammrock

[Greebe]

KD, only off the top of your head you think it's BS for that # to be high, but what you don't know are the facts. I know of far more gun dealers than McD's because most are run out of their homes without those Golden Arches advertising this fact.

Not only are the majority run from homes, but Pawn shops and sporting good stores (etc) are also on this list.

It's that age old, I didn't see him, when the guy riding a motorcycle is hit in an accident. Most people who don't drive one don't see them, but once you do, you see just how many are truely on the road have gone unnoticed.

[Dr Mordrid]

Originally posted by Brian R.
You are making a really broad generalization. I doubt you have a clue what most Americans would do. It is the vocal gun owners who you hear defending this right. What percentage of the population feels that way? I would bet the answer is "I don't have a clue".

It's very obvious what Americans will do: get mad as hell if you try to take 'em away.

The pols don't even make a serious attempt any more since every time an elected official takes that position they get hammered. In the last election cycle most of the Democrat losses were attributable to their candidates anti-gun position.

You also have to understand that in much of the US the population density is far below that of Europe and other advanced countries. In many areas the nearest police car could well be 1/2 hr or more away, in which case citizens are pretty much on their own when it comes to defending against intruders etc.

By the time police get there it's all over but filing the reports and mopping up the mess.

When I was a young man in New Boston, MI (just 20 miles outside downtown Detroit) we didn't even have a full time Police Dept. The town constable was on duty from 8:00 AM to 6:00 PM and after that they rolled up the sidewalks and shut down the PD office.

A police response would have to come from the nearest State Police post in Flat Rock, which was about 15 miles away from our area of town. Even then they only had two prowl cars on duty at night and one of those had to cover the I-75 freeway. The other had to respond not only to New Boston but several other small communities in the area. The County Sheriff was likewise understaffed.

Today the situation hasn't improved much since the population has grown faster than the coverage.

You can just imagine what it's like in the rest of Michigan, which is even more rural than New Boston, Flat Rock etc. In some areas police stations could easily be 50+ miles apart but have half the states population.

Now imagine Utah, the Dakotas or Idaho.

Dr. Mordrid

[Brian R.]

Nothing is as obvious as you would have us believe.