Don't you love Jesus?

[Wombat]

It's still not an Aryan portrayal of Jesus.

Jesus is the son of God, which isn't exactly the same thing as being God. He is an extension of. Catholics show Jesus on the cross as a symbol of his sacrifice. ...

Except that Catholics (and many Protestants) believe in the trinity, and that the three are indistinguishable parts of the whole. So Jesus is God.

[schmosef]

Except that Catholics (and many Protestants) believe in the trinity, and that the three are indistinguishable parts of the whole. So Jesus is God.

So according to that understanding... Aren't these graven images?

[KvHagedorn]

If Jesus is depicted as a north German-looking fellow, he was probably painted by one. There were an awful lot of Dutch painters in the 1600s, and a lot of the more familiar portraits were probably painted by them. They had probably never seen a non-Germanic looking person, so guess what Jesus looks like in their depictions? The same with Italian artists: Jesus looks Italian. Modern depictions of Jesus as a Black man are perhaps not as innocent, since of course modern people have seen what middle-easterners look like, but likely come from a similar impulse: to see Christ as someone comfortably familiar. I doubt Jesus himself would really mind.

He probably would mind the sex toys.

[Nowhere]

So according to that understanding... Aren't these graven images?

Not neccesarilly. I'd guess you could hear explanation that it's just a symbol, in the same sense like pigeon, flame or triangle with one eye, with the exception that Jesus was not only God, but also a man, so we know how he looked like (nevermind that every culture portrays him in a way similar to how its members look)

[Jessterw]

Except that Catholics (and many Protestants) believe in the trinity, and that the three are indistinguishable parts of the whole. So Jesus is God.

Jesus resurrected, yes. Jesus as a human was a distinct being.

They didn't want people to be able to claim divine re-interpretation/re-prioritizing of the rule set that would be inevitable if worship of other gods was permitted. Christianity being a good example of this.

Christianity doesn't allow for the worship of other Gods, and let's not forget that the Christian God is the same God as that of the Jews and Muslims. The problem with your argument is that, once Jesus came about, the rules for those who followed him had to change. The same as the Judaism changed the rules that came before it.

Christian sects have altered the rules to fit, not based on worship of other gods, but because of social and political environments.

If this isn't what you meant, then please correct me. I just don't see what the point of that statement was beyond another pro-Judaism stance.

[Dr Mordrid]

Just to get the definitions straight, at least from the teachings I had;

God the Father: the creator, law-giver and protector. YHWH.

God the Son: The Word (Greek "Logos"); the Earthly manifestaion of God in Jesus Christ.

God the Holy Ghost (or Spirit): eq. to the Hebrew "Ruah HaQodesh" or "Breath of YHWH", the non-material personal manifestation of God in the worshiper.

Dr. Mordrid

[schmosef]

The last thing I'm trying to do is evangelise, or criticize your religion. Leave that to Gurm.

I'm comparing and contrasting our different religious views on graven images.

Take another example, the solemnity of Christmas has been hijacked by Santa Claus. Had the Santa Claus image not been allowed to permeate the way it has, Christmas would be celebrated much differently.

[KvHagedorn]

Look through these pictures of Jesus.. then notice the names of the artists. I think my theory holds up pretty well.

[KvHagedorn]

I don't think Santa Claus is such a problem. He is based upon a selfless saint who gave of himself and found joy in such giving. If that message and his positive image as a role model remain intact, it's a good thing. The bad thing I think you are targeting is how parents focus on the gifts rather than the spirit in which they are given.. this makes children selfish rather than allowing them to focus on a selfless example to follow.

[schmosef]

I don't think that your theory is in doubt.

Probably the only person that took offense to the idea that Jesus wan't European was UtwigMU.

[Jon P. Inghram]

As far as I'm concerned we'll never know if God really does or does not exist. I'm a big (well, OK, not really ) proponent of the idea that existence of God is inherently unknowable.

The way I look at it is that I'll find out one way or the other eventually, thus I'm not bothered in the slightest about knowing that sooner or later I'm gonna kick the bucket, and why I think that death isn't something to be afraid of.

Oh, back on topic... I think the goofy Jesus playing baseball and other things are rather creepy if they're intended to be "serious." If they're just joke / gag items, then they're just good old tasteless.

[Dr Mordrid]

Take another example, the solemnity of Christmas has been hijacked by Santa Claus. Had the Santa Claus image not been allowed to permeate the way it has, Christmas would be celebrated much differently.

Giftgiving has been part of Chrisitanity ever since Roman times, so it's nothing new. Santa Claus (aka St. Nicholas etc.) has been part of Christmas since ~1100 AD. Traditions connecting him with giftgiving go back as far.

The term "XMAS" so many think of as a recent, commercialized name for the holiday actually goes way back to the early church as well. Eastern Christians (and not a few Jews) in those days freely interchanged their speech and writings between Aramaic, Hebrew and Greek. "X" in Greek is the first letter of Christ's name and was used as a holy symbol, hence XMAS(S) = Christs Mass.

Christmas trees, cards and carols came into the mix during the 1800's AD.

Dr. Mordrid

[Nowhere]

The way I look at it is that I'll find out one way or the other eventually, thus I'm not bothered in the slightest about knowing that sooner or later I'm gonna kick the bucket, and why I think that death isn't something to be afraid of.

There's a catch thought - if both:
a) God doesn't exist
b) we cease to exist after death
than you won't be able to find out

edit: come to think of it, only second thing would suffice

[Dr Mordrid]

You may not, but those of us with faith will

Dr. Mordrid

[schmosef]

I don't think Santa Claus is such a problem. He is based upon a selfless saint who gave of himself and found joy in such giving. If that message and his positive image as a role model remain intact, it's a good thing. The bad thing I think you are targeting is how parents focus on the gifts rather than the spirit in which they are given.. this makes children selfish rather than allowing them to focus on a selfless example to follow.

Thus the reinterpretation/reprioritization of the rule set.

Christmas is supposed to be one of the most significant events of the Chrisitan calendar, right? It's the coming of your L&S.

And the message has been hijacked by the ability to manipulate the graven Santa Claus image. No doubt Saint Nick was a good man, but he was nothing like the man portrayed as Santa Claus. Furthermore, call it what you will, kids, who are obviously too young to know better, are praying to Santa for the toys they want.

Ok, so let's compare and contrast to Chanukah. Although the event is a secular holiday and was conceived as a reaction to Christmas, the solemnity has not been lost. It's not about the presents; they're usually lame. It's about family, and believing in miracles, etc.

Had we a graven Chanukah Harry image it would be subject to the same distortion that has occurred with Santa Claus, who until Coke got their hands on him looked very different.