Ok Murcers GIVE UP!

[Topha]

I know this does not belong here, but since this seems to be the most visited topic, i will ask my question here:

i downloaded the newest driver and the newest (updated) tweak util 4.11 but i cant overclock, i can slide the overclock slider, but i can neither temporarly nor permanently apply those settings.

i tried everything from installing new drivers to reinstalling windows me, but it doesnt work.

does the tweak util have to be in a certain folder or something?

[Greebe]

Topha, follow this link.

[DuRaNgO]

I can find anything out for a piece of toast

[dZeus]

I know this does not belong here, but since this seems to be the most visited topic, i will ask my question here:

Does anyone know what's the best retractable coffee-cup holder that can hold the DVD type cups?

[Jorden]

Tried your nearest coffee-shop lately, Frank?

Oh shit, after the Big Bang they were all gone... errm, try Belgium!

[dZeus]

Do the shops with the marihunana symbol sell good drives Jorden? I'm at a complete loss!

[DuRaNgO]

no, but they the the really good memory "sticks"

[Himself]

I'll have some of of what what Durango's having.

[paulcs]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Originally posted by DuRaNgO:
no, but they the the really good memory "sticks"</font>

Given what appears to have happened to my short term memory during my junior and senior years in high school, I'd be hard pressed to call them "memory sticks." "Anti-memory sticks" is more like it.

I had another point to make, but I can't seem to remember what it was.

Oh yes! I vote Soap Box.

Paul
paulcs@flashcom.net


[This message has been edited by paulcs (edited 20 January 2001).]

[Rags]

Superfly,

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Ask yourself this question.....

Take a game like Q3,why does it consistently run faster at low resolutions on a Geforce card compared to a voodoo 5 all else being equal(cpu,memory,etc...).

Remember,at such low resolutions,the fill rate limits or memory bandwith of both cards aren't being stressed at all,so fill rate is a non issue.

Give up???... .</font>

Superfly, the benefit of getting 150 FPS instead of 135 FPS is irrelevant. There are many factors that determine speed at low resolutions. When a processor gets faster and faster, it soon does become fillrate limited. Really it does. Drivers play a huge role in low resolution performance, TurboGL proved this many months ago. nVidia has a very efficient ICD, everyone knows this already With 1 Ghz+ processors, right now Q3 can be fillrate limited with the right card. The V5500 is one of them. This is why HSR actually boosted the FPS in low resolution like it did.

At any rate, the difference is not worth mentioning, and in reality, T&L has ~0 benefit at this time, especially the weak implementation that nVidia is currently using.

Rags

[DosFreak]

While I do agree that current T&L implementation is not what it can be. (NV20+ will solve that.) It's still very usefull.

These are old benchmarks scores. Didn't bring my updated once with me. (Stupid floppy!)

1024X768 32bc 32bt 24bz Triple Frame Buffer

HARDWARE T&L/P3/SOFTWARE T&L

3DMARKS=5100/4330/2946

HELICOPTER
Low =101.5/79.7/50.0
Med = 74.2/56.9/33.8
High= 40.0/31.9/20.4

Adventure
Low =105.6/100.8/79.0
Med = 63.8/ 56.8/40.0
High= 39.7/ 34.8/22.3
Giants

Press T button. Type in FR. Hold FPS over Shelter on Beach.

D3D

640X480 =8/8
800X600 =8/8
1024X768=8/8

T&L HAL

640X480 =13/13
800X600 =12/12
1024X768=12/12

[DosFreak]

2XP3-700E@868 124Mhz bus X 7 1/4
Geforce 2 GTS 64m 220C/366m
Windows 2000 Pro
Nvidia 7.17
Directx 8


I have benchmarked with the latest 6.62 WHQL drivers (THE DRIVERS TO USE IN WINDOWS 2000. ALOT better than 7.17's and complete stable in Quake 3. Also no graphics corruption at all) and the performance is about the same.

[Greebe]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">(Stupid floppy!)</font>

That's what she said! hehe

[Rags]

So, have you figured out how to win, or even play 3DMark 2k?

Rags

[superfly]

I'm not debating the actual gameplay experience between two different cards,especially when the difference is no more than 10~15% anyways and both cards are in the triple digit fps figures as it is.

What i'm trying to make you understand is why it can potentially make it faster,especially with more demanding games.

In fact there are some q3 settings that can be edited in the q3 config folder if you're willing to try,and they directly relate to how many polys q3 uses.

They go like this:

/r_lodbias -2 (default is 0)

/r_subdivisions 1 (default is 4)

/r_lodcurve error 10 000 (default is 250).

With these settings,q3 will use anywhere from 20 000 to 25 000 polys per frame(up from 10.000 in high quality),and in my case my average drops 5 to 10 fps.

Try it and see what kind of performance hit you'll get.

Back to the topic.

Yes,drivers can make a huge difference in low resolution performance,the turbo GL drivers for the G400 proved that,but after any given card has been out for more than 6~9 months and there already have been at least half dozen or so driver releases,you can be pretty sure that,as far as drivers go,the card isn't going to get much faster.

Regarding fill rate limits on current video cards...

there has yet to exist a cpu and bus that can push the current high end video cards to their limits at low resolution,not even close.

The current fill rate champ can run q3 at 1600*1200 32 bit at 60fps(400 megapixel effective fill rate on Geforce2 ultra,not even half as much as what the processor is really capable of).

Here's the fill rate need for the same game running at 640*480 32 bit,again at 60 fps average...

16 times less fill rate(i'm not kidding you).

This means that.based on fill rate capability alone in q3,the ultra would be 16 times faster at low resolution.

The fastest benchmark i've seen for an ultra would the the p4 review made at tom's where the p4 processor was overclocked to 1700~1800 mhz,and q3 moved along nicely at 250+ fps.

Now granted,a voodoo 5 isn't as fast as an ultra,but a voodoo 5 can still run the game at about 30 fps at 1600*1200 32 bit,so even in it's case,there is not a cpu or bus architecture on god's green earth that can limit that card at low resolution with a game like q3.

The reason why the HSR drivers also increased the voodoo's performance at low resolution is due to the fact that it's not just fill rate savings that are being made,but also savings in the amount of geometry(polygons)that has to travel through the system bus between the cpu and video card.

Just as HSR hides the pixels that you can't see,it will also won't bother to process the additional geometry that goes with those extra pixels as well(any object that's in the game that uses polugons that's not in your field of view)

It all comes down to the same thing...bus speed limits and the fact that current motherboards run on a shared bus archetecture.