Ok Murcers GIVE UP!

[DosFreak]

"So, have you figured out how to win, or even play 3DMark 2k?
Rags"


awwww,

I post some 3DMARK 2000 scores to complement your T&L post and you immediately make a comeback on playing 3Dmark 2000. How sad.


Do you even play Giants? More importantly CAN you even play Giants??!!

[Jorden]

The thread is hoovering between TSB and the Benchmark forum. Can you send seperate pages to their right destination, Kruzin?

[Wombat]

Okay, my only contribution to this thread is that nihilist made claims about Matrox's next card. The BB's might also know about this card, and, none of us have bought another mfr.'s card yet

[Rags]

DosFreak,

All your post shows to me is that you haven't read any of this thread except just snippets. If you had read you would see that I already said that 3DMark is one of the few places you would see improvement, and sorry it's not a game, and it's not even a benchmark that is indicative of the games out there, or really even the games to come.

Giants, first I don't even know what your benchmarks mean or are trying to prove because I don't have that game myself, and have not even seen the game on the shelf yet, much less a demo. Believe me, I have looked around for "Giants" because I am interested in seeing what it can and cannot do with a G450/Radeon/and an MX.

Rags

[HollyBerri]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Originally posted by superfly:
I'm not debating the actual gameplay experience between two different cards,especially when the difference is no more than 10~15% </font>

But isn't the point of many people posting in this thread that the "actual gameplay experience" is[list=a][*] the most important factor to them, and[*] not dependent on raw speed?[/list=a]

So if we're veering off into a discussion of what technical factors affect 'raw speed',and/or the benefits of different chip features I'd just like to note that, as it's a long way from where we started 5 pages ago .

[superfly]

We are quite off the initial topic aren't we???.... .

But at least it's usefull infomation for everybody,regardless of what video card you like.

I agree that speed is a relative term,in some games you don't even need half as much as what current cards can give.

But on the other hand,if you're a q3 freak who's a rocket jumping,circle and jump strafing fool who plays either 1 on 1 or in 20+ player servers and wins 3/4 of the time,then fps matters.

Btw....that's me... .

[Rob M.]

woah, seems nihilist created quite a stir.

If someone comes into the forum and offers some information (no g800 silicon as of yet, not targetted towards high-performance gamers) I normally try to get the person to talk about his field, or things related that aren't covered under NDA. This way you can normally weed out the 'kid who looked in his father's briefcase', you can normally get a pretty good idea of what they really do know.

Instead the people in these forums decided to flame away until he/she left. I'd be pretty embarrassed to considerself a true murcer reading those posts and letting them go without challenge.

Now I'm not a die-hard murcer, I only drop by the hardware forums in the off chance that some hot rumour like nihilist's no silicon post gets out.

You see, I'm looking to upgrade my G400Max, at the time I bought it (just before the Geforce came out) it was the fastest card on the market, and that's why I got it. I've decided to get one of the next-gen cards coming out, but fps is going to be a major factor. That's why I find posts like nihilst's so interesting.

Try thinking about it this way. How many people here think it would make good business sense for Matrox to have planned the G800 to be out 18+ months after the G400?

I don't know the reasons behind, but it seems to me that most manafacturers try to have yearly updates, be it cars, tv's, etc. Now the video card market there's much higher turmoil, as it's still new, but it seems the 'new product a year' idea seems to followed in general (albiet blurred with refreshes) by ATI and nvidia.

So this leads me to believe that Matrox is behind schedule with their G800.

Now, let's add a few more things into the equation:
1. Matrox doesn't seem to me like a company name that would draw the cream of the crop when it comes to 3d-accelerator engineers.. The fact that matrox employees leave to go to nvidia only re-affirms this believe even more. As such, all things equal, if a card designed by team at matrox was started at the same time as a card designed by team at nvidia, I'd guess that the nvidia card would end up being faster (but I certainly wouldn't bet on it).

2. Previously, Matrox was nearly a full cycle behind nvidia in terms of fps when they released the G400. The g400 barely beat out the TNT2, but only a month after it's release the Geforce came out.

Taken all the facts into consideration, this would make me believe that the G800 isn't going to be a speed demon by any means. I'm guessing it would be more along Radeon-speed at best

So, when I saw nihilist's posts, I didn't take them at face value, but i'm inclined to [i]believe[i] them more than disbelieve.
Yes, they do seem rather inflammatory, however, if you believe what (s)he's saying, then in context the posts don't sound like someone trolling..

BTW, If you replaced the words 'Mtx' and 'g800' with 'nvidia' and 'nv20', those posts would've surely been welcomed...

[Himself]

Jord,

Like I said before, there should be a speculation forum, that way this place could be relegated to just discussing hardware problems with G400s.

[Gurm]

A couple thoughts:

1. Dosfreak - nice to reaffirm what we already know... that you need to try a dozen different driver revisions to get your nVidia card working correctly. Urk! (For the record, I have _never_ had to downgrade my G400 drivers. Ever.)

2. nihilist was a troll. He didn't come in here with any kind of believability. Any idiot can wander into a forum and claim to be an ex-employee of a company, but the truth of the matter is that he said SUBSTANTIALLY more than anyone under any kind of devent NDA would ever be allowed to say. So no, we didn't overreact. We asked him to provide further details (in a different thread) and all he said was "I used to work there, and they suck..."

- Gurm

------------------
Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.

[Ant]

Rob nihilist came into these forums intimating that he knew all and pouring scorn on people in these forums for having the nerve to speculate on what there might be to come from Matrox. That's why people reacted the way they did to him.

[superfly]

Look let's forget about nililist alright...

If i had a dollar every time somebody said he had official info on upcoming hardware,i'd have a beachfront house in the bahamas,enjoying the weather(and scantily clad ladies... )while sipping martini's for the rest of my life.

Now that is living in paradise... .

Btw,did anyone try the q3 settings that i mentioned on my previous post???.

[Rob M.]

Well, I did a search for all his posts in the murc forum, unless some were deleted, none were outright "Mtx SUX!" type comments.. More along the lines "Why do you guys speculate like this when the G800 might not even make it to the shelves?"

[DosFreak]

"Dosfreak - nice to reaffirm what we already know... that you need to try a dozen different driver revisions to get your nVidia card working correctly. Urk!"

How did you make this assumption? The latest 6.31 drivers straight from NVIDIA are perfect (although slow) in Windows 2000. No problems with games whatsoever. The latest WHQL drivers 6.62 improve upon the 6.31's by an SIGNIFIGANT increase in speed. (In the 6.31's Hardware T&L was broken, in 6.47+ & Directx 8 H T&L is fixed).

The ONLY people that mix & match drivers are those that have NO CLUE about the changes in those drivers. (The folks who change drivers because a check box option is changed ) or those who want to get the optimal performance in a specific game. (Can we say the first G400 OGL drivers for Windows 2000. Quake 3 when I last tested with it was fastedt with these drivers.


"For the record, I have _never_ had to downgrade my G400 drivers. Ever"

Yeah, that's because the only drivers you get are straight from the company (I assume that's the only drivers you get. Us "Nvidiots" get leaked drivers which help us learn more about upcoming speed increases/new cards/bugs.

[This message has been edited by DosFreak (edited 21 January 2001).]

[DosFreak]

Check 'dis out.

http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/Forum13/HTML/000011.html

[The PIT]

Perfect but slow. How can they be perfect if there slow in win2k.