Love?

[cjolley]

Originally posted by cbman
...But how do you ask... something like if I wasn't married would you go out with me...

This is very similar to covering yourself with poo-poo and asking her how she feels about you.
Some girls might like it, but, not many and you wouldn't want them.
chuck

[RedRed]

But how do you ask... something like if I wasn't married would you go out with me

that is 'the road to no town', as far as your marriage is concerned.!!!! Dont go there, if you care for what you got!

Picture the scene:
You are having a row with your missus and the next thing is you are thinking 'I bet Lucy (or whatever her name is) wouldnt treat me like that....' that rots the core of your existing relationship... It isnt fair on the other lass either. She has a kid, she might want a perminant relationship. It is easy to be 'Mr Sensitive' when you are just being 'friendly'. You should remember that she might end up comparing other relationships to yours, and that isnt healthy for her either....


RedRed

[cbman]

Thanks for the concern Red.

I think you have a good point.

About the wife being a best friend and all... Maybe I am looking at that in the wrong perspective.. maybe she has gone from being my best friend to being "the wife" and that I am loosing sight of what a relationship is?

On the other hand being on dangerous ground can be fun sometimes... adds some zeal to your day

I would say there is a 99% chance that I am staying with my wife... I wouldn't leave her that's for sure.

Its just the few times she has threatened to leave me that has really created such problems.

Of course she was really really angry at the time... but it hasn't happened just once or twice.. but multiple times...

It only lasts for a few hours and then she is back to normal... but it lets me really know she has considered it more than once.

I have talked with her about it.. so I know her thoughts on the matter.

Bah.. what do I know...

Oh and I don't look like a Cactus

[cbman]

I kinda figured that the first way of asking was bad...

I just threw that in there as an example.. I would never ask that question.

The main problem is finding out how she feels without her glossing over the truth.

I am starting to think that if I can find out exactly how she feels I will be able to decide how to handle the situation... If she really does really like me... I would have to find a way to make our relationship a non stressful friendship.. I have been in that position before where someone has really liked me but I didn't return the feeling.. I never spoke about it to them, because they never asked and it really made being around them awkward.

If she just thinks of me as a friend and nothing more then well... nothing to worry about and its all good.

If she doesn't like me at all.. then I can goto the bar and visit the Captain.

get her drunk, rent a motel room and behave like an animal - videotape for future viewing because you'll never see her again after that (especially when you tell her about the video). Post some captures of it here for us, after all we at Murc are the best friends you'll ever have - and friends always share

Now that is an answer that is straight and too the point..

it does have its merits... LOL.. but I think I will have to pass on that one dancray

[Rags]

cbman,

Be very careful in comparing this girl to your companion. I was on the other side of this equation at one time and it's really not fair to your wife to do a comparison with your best friend.

Think about it for a minute, you wife is someone who shares all the same pressures you do, you share many common goals, and have a stressor in your relationship. The way you handle the stress in this is how you gauge your relative happiness and wellbeing. Your friend, on the other hand, doesn't have to live with you day in and day out. She doesn't have to worry about your financial situation, she doesn't have to worry about all those relationship bugs that affect so many couples. So naturally being around her is less stressful. Don't mistaken this lack of stress as being indicative of how good things would be if you were with her, because due to the nature of your relationship, there is very little struggle to be comfortable around one another. You see what I am saying? You are not being fair to yourself, your spouse, or your friend if you think that all your problems are due to your wife. I bet a nice block that your stress will follow you whoever you decide to be with, it's only natural. Stress is directly proportianal to what one allows to be put on him (in other words if you allow little things to build on your shoulders, you will bare the effects).

Make any sense here?

Good luck with your relationship. Sit down alone and really think about what bothers you and your wife about your relationship before you do anything drastic.

Rags

[cbman]

Thanks for the advice Rags.

Personally I don't have a problem with my relationship with my wife.

I know I sound like I am pointing fingers but I have never told my wife I don't love her. I have never called her an idiot... I have never said... I am sorry I have married you... I have never purposefully given back my ring or taken it off my finger. I have never threatened to leave... I have never said that she is a dissolusioned a$$hole who is sticking with a dead end job and starting a business that will go nowhere just because that is what she wants to do.

I never yell or fight or argue.. I only try to please her.. I have never called her worthless or attacked her self esteem.

Oh well, I don't think it matters much anymore. Last night she said that when we go up to her parents for christmas that more than likely she isn't coming back home with me.

[Rags]

Originally posted by cbman
Thanks for the advice Rags.

Personally I don't have a problem with my relationship with my wife.

I know I sound like I am pointing fingers but I have never told my wife I don't love her. I have never called her an idiot... I have never said... I am sorry I have married you... I have never purposefully given back my ring or taken it off my finger. I have never threatened to leave... I have never said that she is a dissolusioned a$$hole who is sticking with a dead end job and starting a business that will go nowhere just because that is what she wants to do.

I never yell or fight or argue.. I only try to please her.. I have never called her worthless or attacked her self esteem.

Oh well, I don't think it matters much anymore. Last night she said that when we go up to her parents for christmas that more than likely she isn't coming back home with me.

Sorry to hear that bud, I have been there. You have an unreasonable partner then. Rule number one in a relationship-Both parties need to be reasonable. Sounds like she broke the first rule....let us know how things turn out. If she really is this bad, then look at it as a new beginning, not an end. Since my wife and I got divorced I have went through the Why? stage, the How can I change it? stage, and now I am in the "Why did I ever get upset over her leaving?" stage.

ICQ me anytime 8085001.

Rags

[cjolley]

Originally posted by cbman
...I know I sound like I am pointing fingers but I have never told my wife I don't love her. I have never called her an idiot... I have never said... I am sorry I have married you... I have never purposefully given back my ring or taken it off my finger. I have never threatened to leave... I have never said that she is a dissolusioned a$$hole who is sticking with a dead end job and starting a business that will go nowhere just because that is what she wants to do....more than likely she isn't coming back home with me.

If she has said any of the things, let alone all, then she needs to go home to Mommy and grow up some more anyway.
You have a right (and a duty to yourself) to expect and demand at least civil treatment.
If she can't treat you at least as well as she would a stranger on the street, let her hit the road and try to find someone better.
chuck

[cbman]

Thanks Chuck

I really am starting to look at this as coming to an end either with things straightening out or with a clean break, but I can't be sure...

She does all that and then the next day or a few hours later even she is back to being nice and asking me whats' wrong.

At first I thought maybe it was just irrationality but now I am not so sure.

Last night she really laid into me about things and was going to sleep on the couch and didn't want me near her and now today she doesn't want to be away from me and is really really nice and treating me as if I were made of glass.

I feel like she is beating me with a plank with a nail in it and then patching me all up and saying everything is fine...

At least I know she regrets it every time she does that.

But is it my fault that she does that... its something I just dont' know...

[omegaRED]

Originally posted by cbman
She does all that and then the next day or a few hours later even she is back to being nice and asking me whats' wrong.

Are you SURE you can live with someone who treats you like this for the rest of your life? I dont know, i`ve never been married, but i`m in a rather long (5 1/2 yrs) relationship right now, and as time passes by, i find myself thinking more and more what will it be like in marriage, and whether we should get married in the at all. Now, we`re both still very young, but i dont have a problem seeing us married, just not now ...

Think things through, and dont be on defence all the time. Have you ever told her that what she says and does hurts you? If she told you those things a number of times, she`s probably under GREAT stress and has some psychological problems and needs professional help ...

[Bohrn]

yea, u dont need that sort of life. If that is all the rest of your life is gonna be, then get out now, while you are still young and can enjoy a healthy, happy life with someone who treats you like an equal, and a human being. I was with someone like that, and I got out, and it is alot better. Long ago, but still good advice.

[cjolley]

Originally posted by cbman
She does all that and then the next day or a few hours later even she is back to being nice and asking me whats' wrong.

At first I thought maybe it was just irrationality but now I am not so sure.

Last night she really laid into me about things and was going to sleep on the couch and didn't want me near her and now today she doesn't want to be away from me and is really really nice and treating me as if I were made of glass.

I feel like she is beating me with a plank with a nail in it and then patching me all up and saying everything is fine...

At least I know she regrets it every time she does that.

But is it my fault that she does that... its something I just dont' know...

This is typical abusive behavior.
It just seems strange when it's a woman doing it.
Get to a therapist fast.
Your marage may or may not be worth saving, I have no idea.
But, you are.
Fix it or get away from it & make no apologies.
Your mother did not raise you to be a victim your entire life.
chuck

[cbman]

Well maybe tommorrow I will ask her to stay at her parents place for a while after christmas. I don't think she is going to like that much... but I am just going to have to tell her that if she is really that unhappy here that maybe she should be with her family until I get things sorted out down here and that might give us the time we need to figure things out.

I don't think that will work though because as far as she is concerned... it is all figured out.

Maybe she does have a problem. Before she left home to move down here she pretty much got rid of all her friends for somewhat really superficial reasons. All the friends that we hung around with in school... for two years... and then she just stopped talking to all of them and wouldn't reconsider.

I don't know. At the moment she is back to being the way she was when I fell in love with her. Caring, Understanding, and nice to hang around...

Maybe I don't spend enough time with her, or listen well enough, or communicate my feelings.

I don't know... all I know is that I haven't changed one bit from when I met her.. I hope she wasn't hoping to change me into what she was looking for in a man...

From what I remember that is considered one of the biggest follies in a relationship.

[Wombat]

Maybe I don't spend enough time with her, or listen well enough, or communicate my feelings.

These are the first words of an "enabler" personality. The kind of thing that the family of an alcoholic might say.

I didn't see it until Chuck mentioned it, but he might just be right about the "abuser". I myself was thinking clinical depression, but it could be the former, or both.

[cbman]

It makes sense... I am pretty good when it comes to understanding people.

I see alot that most other people wouldn't even notice.

I think its just because she's my significant other that I have been overlooking the signs hoping that it was just a phase.

Think about it for a minute, you wife is someone who shares all the same pressures you do, you share many common goals, and have a stressor in your relationship. The way you handle the stress in this is how you gauge your relative happiness and wellbeing. Your friend, on the other hand, doesn't have to live with you day in and day out. She doesn't have to worry about your financial situation, she doesn't have to worry about all those relationship bugs that affect so many couples. So naturally being around her is less stressful. Don't mistaken this lack of stress as being indicative of how good things would be if you were with her, because due to the nature of your relationship, there is very little struggle to be comfortable around one another. You see what I am saying? You are not being fair to yourself, your spouse, or your friend if you think that all your problems are due to your wife. I bet a nice block that your stress will follow you whoever you decide to be with, it's only natural. Stress is directly proportianal to what one allows to be put on him (in other words if you allow little things to build on your shoulders, you will bare the effects).

I think you are right on this one rags.

I still haven't found out her feelings for me but I think that even if my relationship fell through (Which it still may not) and she really did like me that I would be too hesitant to seek a long term relationship with anyone. Hell I never did date anyone before I met the wife and I have a feeling that I wouldn't be comfortable with women for a while.

I would probably go back to being that third wheel best friend in other peoples lives... I never did have a problem with that before... its just fairly lonely.

I guess I will just have to wait and see where it all leads to in these weeks coming up to christmas.

I am going over to the "Friends" House to help her make up some photo christmas cards with her new scanner and printer. I will not bring up anything about the wife or her and the situation I just went through and I will concentrate on just being a good friend.

I figure.. why bother complicating things more by throwing more estrogen into the equation.

Ok that last bit was a lame attempt at being funny.