'Burning Bush' comment draws prison term

[KvHagedorn]

Originally posted by ElDonAntonio
KvHagedorn, you're a racist, plain and simple. No better than a nazi.
You want immigrants out? you'll lose all of your country's elite. If you think the only smart and good guys are the white blond-hair burger-loving americans, then you're nothing but trash.

(and btw, I am white, with blond hair and I love burgers.)

I would rather be a racist than a moron who takes the opportunity to slur those who do not kowtow to political correctness because he thinks all the right is on his side. What is your side, by the way? Do you have any constructive thought in that pea-sized brain of yours, or are you such a shallow human being that the only culture you can identify with is burgers? That's pretty sad.

[GNEP]

Call that fluent English James???

(j/k)

[Dogbert]

I've been speaking with too many Europeans to know that many Muslims DON'T integrate. I mean, why should they ???
Soon, with their natural growth, you'll be the ones who'll have to integrate...
If you don't believe me, check the big masses in the IRF (Islamic Republic of France) or in GB. Then check in how many countries have muslims try to incorporate the Sharia (Islamic law) into the local one as an equal.
Once your population goes into negative growth, you and your culture are doomed. In a few generations you'll be nothing more that another archeological / antropological study.
Sad ? Possibly.
True ? For sure !

[Goc]

Don't you guys ever tire of this?
We all know where this is going to end...
I tried once to normally communicate (express opinion while taking in account things said before by other people) in one of this threads and have been called something in a manner of "liberalist ****ole"...
Take it easy... I for one think that all people don't necesseraly have to have the same opinion on a certain topic. I also can't understand why some of you think all people should...
This way things around here are only getting tense and annoying, resulting in threads being locked leaving people holding grudges against each other, then bringing the same points back up in another thread that eventually also gets locked and so on...

You hate immigrants? Tough luck... All you can do is, as someone stated in this thread, have more babies... Your economy needs fresh working forces, so when you don't supply enough yourself, help from outside is needed...

And please don't give me some "self-hate" argument, cause being proud of yourself and hating yourself don't mix in my book, and I have yet to see an American in this forums that isn't proud to be one...

EDIT:
Except, maybe, KvH, but I'm not sure on this one...

[KvHagedorn]

At least Dogbert can see the reality of the situation..

This problem has so much to do with shortsighted greed it is amazingly sad. First, people want to purchase a lot of stuff rather than procreate. Why? This unheathy desire has been ingrained into our society by marketing people. You hate marketing people but aren't sure why? Here's why.. they are making you extinct!

the thing is that Norway needs the immigrants, we don't have a surpluss on the workforce like the Eu has, this is forcing the prices up, so we need immigrants to keep the inflation down.

Read this again James. Now think again and, slowly, tell me what your priorities are.

The problem of slowing natality is really at the root of things, as many have averred. This has two causes.. materialism and feminism, and it is thoroughly exacerbated by the problem of strident social liberalism, which espouses principles it is convinced are high-minded, but are really completely clueless when they meet up with reality.

We talk a lot on this forum about material crap we have acquired (and sadly, I am as guilty as any of you in this failing, perhaps moreso) but we also talk about people.. occasionally someone gets married or has a child. This is the most wonderous thing, but our society wants to make it so negative. We actually list statistics about how expensive children are.. how much money it will cost to send them to college in 18 years, and so forth. Women are infused with concern about their figures being ruined or the pain they will go through in childbirth, or the negative aspects of pregnancy. Why is this such a burden? Is there a better reason for living? Is there a more profound purpose in life than to create new life and nurture it? All this compassion women have.. the compassion your nature was given for nurturing your own children.. just wasted..

Then there are those whose priorities are out of whack in different ways.. people who are so self-centered that they would rather party their lives away whether they have children or not. If they do have children, the children wind up neglected and grow to be twisted in various ways.

This is a very depressing topic, and it's hard to sit up and face the mortality of one's entire people. But unless we face it and do something about it, there won't be anyone here to argue these points in a hundred years.

[Goc]

If it isn't too personal, KvH... How many children do you have?

[GNEP]

Not true in my (albeit limited) experience Dogbert. I work with, have studied with, and am very good friends with many muslims. Of course they have a different culture, but I have never felt threatened by "muslim invasion", and value and respect my muslim friends highly. No muslim I have ever met is "secretly out to take over Britain"!!!

Dogbert what you are saying (and I don't know how to put this without potentially irritating you greatly - for that I apologise and hope you appreciate my point of view) - sounds very similar to the attitude prevalent towards Jews in the early to mid 20th century in Europe. And look where that led us. I truly believe that some understanding rather than raw prejudice can help us prevent something similar happening.

Gnep

[KvHagedorn]

Originally posted by Goc
If it isn't too personal, KvH... How many children do you have?

Sadly, none. Is any fault more painful than one which is is your own as well?

[Dogbert]

Originally posted by GNEP
Not true in my (albeit limited) experience Dogbert. I work with, have studied with, and am very good friends with many muslims. Of course they have a different culture, but I have never felt threatened by "muslim invasion", and value and respect my muslim friends highly. No muslim I have ever met is "secretly out to take over Britain"!!!

Dogbert what you are saying (and I don't know how to put this without potentially irritating you greatly - for that I apologise and hope you appreciate my point of view) - sounds very similar to the attitude prevalent towards Jews in the early to mid 20th century in Europe. And look where that led us. I truly believe that some understanding rather than raw prejudice can help us prevent something similar happening.

Gnep

Not entirely correct (not entirely incorrect either).
The fear from the Jes was because they had control over many powersources. Most muslims who study in the university are +/- integrated. You can't stydy @ the university without knowing the language and at least some of the culture.
The problem starts with the uneducated ones. I'm talking about the hard core. Those who are more religious and (much) less educated. Check the prisons for example, many muslims there (although a large part were converted during their time in prison).

I'm curious about something, have you ever been in an Arab country or seen movies about such ? Ever noticed how the muslims are called to pray ( 5 times / day) ? With some very powerfull loudspeakers. How'd you like to hear those in your neighbourhood ? Now, you can't prevent that from happening cause you'll be hurting their freedom of religion.

My I suggest a few CDs of Farid El-Atrash and Oum Cul Tum (among the greatest Arab singers ever) so you start to get used to the sound of the language ?

[Umfriend]

Many Muslims DO integrate as well. Many mosques are going to have at least part of their sermons in Dutch (I do not know how long it took the catholic church to do that, took the Muslims a couple of decades). We've got quite a few native inhabitants that do not adhere to basic values in our society however.

Call me a moron if you like, but I always believe to judge individuals on their own merits instead of groups based on the wrongdoings of some (or a lot) of them.

KvH: Could you please tell me a bit about your people and culture?

Oh, and BTW: natality is declining amongst Muslims as well over here. Guess they resemble us natives at least in that wealth tends to surpress birth rate.
Umf

[KvHagedorn]

Originally posted by GNEP
No muslim I have ever met is "secretly out to take over Britain"!!!

Gnep

If it's secret than how could you really know?

They act in their own self-interest, just as anyone does. It just so happens that they want what we have got..

a quote from "Lawrence of Arabia":

FEISAL
...No Arab loves the desert. We love water and green trees. There's nothing in the desert. No man needs
nothing...

...I long for the vanished gardens of Cordoba. However, before the gardens must come the fighting. To be great again, it seems that we need the English...

interesting to watch this film and listen to these lines in the full daylight of the present..

[Umfriend]

Dogbert,
The mosques I know of over here do not have/use loudspeakers. The churhes do ring their bells however.
Umf

[GNEP]

Hehe @ KvH - great film!

Dogbert: no, I haven't actually managed to make it to a muslim country yet, although will do at some stage soon I'm sure. I just don't really cope with the heat that well...

I do however live very near the East London Mosque, and walk past it regularly. It doesn't bother me in the slightest, even the loudspeakers in the minarets. In fact, I quite like the fact it's there because it is another useful focus for the local community.

Gnep

[Technoid]

Originally posted by James_D
Yep I certainly agree that people should learn the language... but I for one know how diffucult some languages are. I've been here for 1 year now (in Hungary) and I still don't master the language, I've learnt more russian than hungarian. why haven't I learned the language. Well it's a bit complex, the first thing is that the language at work is English, and most of my colleagues are fluently english speaking. Secondly, the Hungarian language is VERY complex, ( I speak fluently german, french and English and some russian.)
and 3rd, I'm here for a short periode of time, so I don't prioritize the language that much.

So don't be to hard on the immigrants for not learning the language, More important is the 2nd generation, they should be speaking the language fluently.



well this was just my humlbe opinion..

James.

I'm not aiming at the ones that has been here for less than a year or two.

I'm aiming at the ******* who have lived here for more than 10 years and still don't speak any swedish and the third gen that speaks there grandparents homelands language better than swedish!!

I bet that if you lived in hungary for 10 years you would pick up enough to hold a simple conversation

[KvHagedorn]

Originally posted by Umfriend
Call me a moron if you like, but I always believe to judge individuals on their own merits instead of groups based on the wrongdoings of some (or a lot) of them.

I only called one person a moron here.. someone who presented a hate-filled, childish argument full of personal insults.

And only half of our being is our individuality.. our other half is our membership in a group. For a very plain example of this concept, observe your own dog, if you have one. A completely different personality when dealing with him one-on-one than when dealing with him when he is one of a pack. Humans behave the same way, but it is not as overt.

KvH: Could you please tell me a bit about your people and culture?

My people are European. I am half English, one quarter Norwegian, and one quarter German. My culture? What is there to that that you don't know yourself?