'Burning Bush' comment draws prison term

[Dogbert]

Originally posted by GNEP
Hehe @ KvH - great film!

Dogbert: no, I haven't actually managed to make it to a muslim country yet, although will do at some stage soon I'm sure. I just don't really cope with the heat that well...

I do however live very near the East London Mosque, and walk past it regularly. It doesn't bother me in the slightest, even the loudspeakers in the minarets. In fact, I quite like the fact it's there because it is another useful focus for the local community.

Gnep

Then I do seriously recommend to you the music of Um Kalthoum and Farid el Atrash. Any person with at least a bit of Arab culture would respect your taste in music much more if you know and understand the music in any of these.

[GNEP]

Thanks Dogbert - I will look it out. Knowing the music would be one thing - understanding it something entirely different I think!

Always open to new influences - incidentally I actually started to quite enjoy Bollywood stuff (when subtitled of course!) when I had a housemate who was really into it once. Of course, this year (in London at least) it has been v. trendy with Bollywood themes in lots of shops, restaurants etc. With not much knowledge behind the fashion, and with the certainty that it will all be forgotten next year, I find this quite sad really.

[KvHagedorn]

What on Earth is Bollywood?

Ah.. nevermind.. Indian film industry

[Umfriend]

KvH: Point taken on the Moron stuff.

I have one big issue with "pack" thinking: you react to the "current average" of the pack. The problem with this is that it leaves no room for the members of the other pack that are moving towards you. This is one of the reasons why I am strongly in favor of letting Turkey join the EU asap. They may not be where we want them, but it will help them get there as opposed to turning east and line up with the Arab countries.

Similarly, for all sorts of reasons and excuses, we have allowed/caused Turks, Moroccans, Surinams etc. to move together in ghetto's, and then condemn them for grouping together and not integrate. (Darn, my English is not good enough to say it exactly as I'd like to, sry).

What is it about (western) European culture (I assume "history" is meant to be part of that, no?) that is so great BTW? Name me one bad thing of the Muslim culture that "ours" has not been guilty of. Name me one virtue (aside from democracy) that the Muslim culture has never had.

It could be that you would not argue that "our" culture is "better" then "theirs", but that you would only argue that they are different, do not mix and are mutually exclusive (in the sense that they can't live in the same area/country etc)? Which is it? (or do I not get it at all)
Umf

[Dogbert]

Here Indian movies ruled during the 70's. Some times ago an Israeli movie was made about guys who reopen their dad's cinema which was closed for years and played a great movie called Sangam. It was a (suprisingly) very good movie (the Israeli one, Sangam is legendary) and was quite an insight to the 70's in Tel Aviv.

Anyway, Arab music as a somewhat different construction and much musical credit is given to the singer performance with his voice. I not very familiar with musical terms, even less with these. You can look for the terms Mawal & Maqams. Most Arab music is based on these.
I'm quite ignorant about the subject since I don't play any instrument and I listen to music only for leasure. People who do know about it (usually people who play an instrument) find this fascinating.

What I (think I) know it: Unlike 'western' music which is supposed to always sound the same, the music based on Maqams on the other hand is based on some kind of a loos skeleton which can be developed somewhat differently each and every time. So while many performances of the same song could sound quite different from each other yet it'll still be the same song.

[KvHagedorn]

Umf:

Can you quantify and empirically discuss the reasons your Mother is superior to some random woman in, say, Bangladesh? The Bangladeshi woman might be a very decent person in every way, but she is not your Mother. Your Mother is your Mother and you love her despite any shortcomings she might have.

[Dogbert]

Umfriend,

One little problem, check Nobel prizes for the last 40 years.

[KvHagedorn]

Originally posted by Umfriend
I have one big issue with "pack" thinking: you react to the "current average" of the pack...

Similarly, for all sorts of reasons and excuses, we have allowed/caused Turks, Moroccans, Surinams etc. to move together in ghetto's, and then condemn them for grouping together and not integrate.
Umf

Perhaps they are more comfortable with their own kind and you do not have any real desire to admit them to your own "pack," since your own views and ways would invariably lessen in the average. They are there for the money and opportunity and green trees, not to give up their culture.

[thop]

First of all, you seem to be rather ignorant about music, as you already said yourself. Some Bollywood soundtracks are great, and so is some islamic music. Check out Idris Muhammad f.e.

And about the mosque thing. There is a greek-orthodox church about 500m from where i live, and at least one mosque that i know of in my nearby area, and at least one synagoge in my town. And one church on about every corner in the town. Probably outnumbers the other by 50:1. If it was for me we could have more of the others.

About the evil muslims taking over the world: please wake up from your dreams.

[Dogbert]

Originally posted by thop
First of all, you seem to be rather ignorant about music, as you already said yourself. Some Bollywood soundtracks are great, and so is some islamic music. Check out Idris Muhammad f.e.

Who did you mean to reply with this ?

[Umfriend]

KvH: My question still is: should the Bangladeshi woman stay in Bangladesh because your Mother is "better" or because she is different and they do not mix well? The reason I am asking is that if you feel your culture is "better", the argument may be very different from when you only feel it does not mix well (The first argument I will not get into, the second one may be interesting though).

Dogbert: I do not have a problem since I have not got the foggiest what you are trying to say…..?
Umf

[Dogbert]

Umfriend,

If you want to check achievements by different cultures, check the Nobel prizes for the last years. Check how many people from each culture got prizes.
Funny, but I can't find many Arabs / Muslims in it.

[omegaRED]

Originally posted by Umfriend
It could be that you would not argue that "our" culture is "better" then "theirs", but that you would only argue that they are different, do not mix and are mutually exclusive (in the sense that they can't live in the same area/country etc)? Which is it? (or do I not get it at all)
Umf

It would be the latter, in my case...

If i went to live in a different country, i`d try to learn the language ASAP, to understand the culture, traditions, etc... Because, after all, i`ll be a CITIZEN of that country (say Germany) of Macedonian DESCENT. Sure, i`d speak Macedonian in my home, with other Macedonians, celebrate some Macedonian (religious) holidays etc, but i`ll be a German. I wont try to seclude in all-Macedonian areas of towns and spend time only with other Macedonians, i`d INTEGRATE into the society, not try to change it because its different from where i came from...

This is, i think, the main problem. Some (i`ll not name them, although it should be pretty clear who) try to ENFORCE their society and culture in a different country... They do not feel that they are Germans (for example), they feel like Macedonians (for example), living in Germany...

This is what i admired the Americans for. A VERY large percentage of the population of ANY descent feel and declare themselves Americans. They respect the country where they live, work, the country that provides them with work etc...

[KvHagedorn]

Umf,

My culture is better for me, and I do not ever want to lose that comfortable home which it creates, though it might be interesting to befriend her and learn of her culture.

[Umfriend]

edit: got the answer while I posted, currently rethinking.
Umf