Parhelia!!!

[Nappe1]

Re: Parhelia

Originally posted by jwb
It sounds to me like an updated list from along Norway (?!). Bit me Boy but it maybe Oy.

Time to check your World Atlas. Helsinki isn't Capital of Norway.

[chaoliang]

I'm so excited as if I had already got the card! I'm ready to pay 300 € for the one in the middle range of them. (Thanks, Topha!)

[GNEP]

Drivers...

So, if this is real, then what about drivers. If it really is a new architecture, then presumably we would be starting with v. 1.0 drivers...how long would we have to wait after release until they are rock solid? 6 months? Then even if the card could be in the shops in June (which I doubt - only 3 months away!), that would mean the card wouldn't be a realistic buy until 2003.

Alternative theory: Unreal 2/UT2 will be a blockbuster game using a new 3d engine, and will mean a LOT of people will be wanting to upgrade their video cards when it is released. Perhaps Matrox has the wisdom to link the two?

gnep

[RedRed]

OMG It cant be true....... Can it? Whoop Whooop whoopieeeeeeee!

Anyone want to buy a slightly used Grandmother??

RedRed

[RedRed]

Roadie says:

edit/ i hope matrox do not release it until the drivers are completely sorted, so there are no ati like scandals

Nah!!! get the card out, with some reasonable drivers.... optomise them as time goes by...... They dont have to be perfect to start with(but they do need OGL etc)

RedRed

[Sasq]

Hmm and maybe they have been working on drivers for a while, and thats also probably why they have Beta Boys, to get most of the bugs out before we see them

Dan

[Oric]

Good news

Let's hope it's real, to play Unreal

[[GDI]Raptor]

I hope Matrox has been working on drivers for a long time now! Stable drivers would be nice!

Ant, can't you tell us exactly what that went wrong with the original G800? All the enteries in the drivers must tell us that they planed much, (F450, F800, G800.....)

Come on Matrox!!!! Do it right this time

[lAmerZ]

when I got my MAX 2++years ago i've already started to keep some extra-DM (now €) for something to be a SUPER-MAX...

now i am waiting for a HYPER-MAX to be announced this summer- keeping 'bout 400€ right now. 400 MATROX-EUROs.
400 PARHELIA-EUROs

Let's skip some month...give us more specs!!

[GT98]

..

[roadie]

3. It is fast. It will have a new memory design, different from all current video cards. Memory speed will be faster than the current fastest (a GeForce4). Faster by a huge margin of victory.

Sounds like Embedded DRAM. VERY costly. Same as what is used in the PS2 - but the PS2 only had 4MB embedded DRAM, and Sony found it too expensive to add more.

4. It is fast. It will be an all new chip. It will not be 256 bit and will not be 128 bit. Expect clock speeds around 300 Mhz. Also expect varied product offerings from this core after the initial products are released.

Embedded DRAM is indeed fast, 2560bit in the PS2. But then they say 300Mhz? Thats slower than that in the GF4 Ti4600
Maybe they are going with a TBR kind of thing?

5. It is 3D feature filled. Expect it to have a fully programmable Transform and Lighting. Displacement mapping is sure to be featured along with shaders. It will have the most powerful Transform and Lighting unit available.

No such thing as programmable T&L, not in the sense of the word. I don't think he actually knows what he is saying, he says with shaders... I assume he means programmable shaders (Programmable Vertex & Pixel shaders)...

6. It is 2D feature filled. Before you say there is nothing that can be done to improve 2D, let me just say there is. 2D performance and quality will be a leap ahead.

Indeed theres more to 2D than u think, and I believe it can be imporved a lot. I am disappointed with current 2D performance (just drag a half transparent window around, its quite jerky).

7. It will be expensive. Of course I have no exact dollar amounts, but I am fairly confident in saying Parhelia will be more expensive than current high end cards, but with good cause. It offers much more than anything else on the market.

Embedded DRAM is EXPENSIVE. The chip will be massive, and 4MB was the limit of what Sony could afford on the PS2. Considering ppl are really complaining about £400 for the GF4 Ti4600... Matrox want to sell this?

8. There will be different versions of the card at launch. There will be a lower end model with lower clock speeds and less memory (probably 64MB). There will be a high end model with higher clock speeds and more memory (probably 128MB). Then later there will be a super high end model, (probably 256MB and more features for its target market). The last one is expected to be pricier than the MMS series of cards and will probably be aimed towards the 3D Labs card users.

64MB Embedded DRAM? Or maybe Matrox is using something like TBR? I think they should go with the latter now they want 256MB RAM on a card!


It seems to me this guy is making the normal claims about a new card, hyping it up if u will. Lets look at his points separately:

Super fast
Lots of memory
New memory design
Much faster than the fastest GeForce4
Programmable shaders

Sounds like the normal stuff for any new card (if u take away new memory design). If they made a 300Mhz TBR card with 6 pipelines then it would beat the GF4 Ti4600 easily. Is this what they are doing tho?

I am skeptical, because he hasn't actually said stuff that makes sense. Faster memory than even the GeForce4 - 300Mhz? Maybe its QDR? New memory design?

this is the one of the answers given to the article at another forum. i think he is pessimistic, but he has some valid points, what do you guys think???

i was not a member here when there was the build up to the g400+max cards, but how did matrox release them??? did they give closed door demos at gdc etc to give the press something to look at, but keep them under nda or did they sa nothing until the release, because i think that matrox are going to follow the same tactic as the g400max

however just after the max was released the geforce came along and stole the hype, will this happen with the gf4ti/ultra or geforce 5???

give me your thoughts guys

[lAmerZ]

what process will Parhelia be produced with?
0.13µm or even less??

let's shrink it to 0.01µm and put some 128+MB embedded-memory
onto that thingy!!

[mdhome]

Roadie
Just curious. Which site did you read this from?

Regards MD

[Nappe1]

well, about that answer... He/She seems to be knowing some stuff about graphic cards but about the eDRAM and about it's costs He doesn't know the whole truth.

making eDRAM chips doesn't cost much more than the regulars. But the design needs totally new approarch and the production lines cost more.

eDRAM chips are totally build different way than normal logic. you just can't take GF4 and slap few megs of eDRAM on it. Anyways, eDRAM chip based cards should be cheaper than card using 256 Bit memory bus.

In that news on the front page when they talk about how many bits it will have they talk about the chip. NOT the memory interface. And if you have 256Bit memory interface on board, you have to has 512bit wide data bus inside the chip, so Still I don't see where this sudden eDRAM boom comes. Still I wouldn't mind if I would find some eDRAM from parhelia, but it looks like wide memory bus thingy to me.

Matrox has proved that it can produce boards with enough accurancy put 256 traces of memory bus in the board (G450 MMS really has it.) so really don't think they would have done that if they wouldn't have any other product coming out from the same lineup. Parhelia PCB's could be perfectly manufactured in the same lineup, eventhough they wouldn't be using exact same design. As said, G450 MMS PCB must be ernomous multilayer design and that kind of PCB production line costs a lot. That's why, what ever more cards they can produce on that same line that less it's price is visible in each finished card. Efficiency is the key word here.

Maybe MK can cast some light about eDRAM costs... I don't know exact numbers but I know some details.

[Electric Amish]

I knew I opened that Swiss bank account for some reason...

And to think I was pondering the purchase of a Ti200... :P

amish